Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, October 18 1999 Volume 03 : Number 179 In this issue: want to sell your prohibited handguns? Re: RE-MARKING A FIREARM I am in good compnay. Re: [alert] BCWF ALERT Another Shooting Range Ordered Closed Justice Department misleading excerpts from the United Alternative Discussion Draft which might be of immediate interest Gun dealer has licence reinstated NFA FUND RAISING WAKE-UP! Edmonton Gun Show ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:12:50 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: want to sell your prohibited handguns? I just got the Oct/Nov, 1999 issue of Canadian Handgun, the publication of the Ontario Handgun Association. Here's an article on page 4. ==================== No Guns for Security Guards A catch 22 situation has developed which could prove to be another embarrassment to the Liberal government. It seems that C-68 will not allow the business-to-business transfer of any of the prohibited handguns. Security firms are businesses as defined by the Firearms Act. Security firms, at least in Ontario, are restricted to use only .38 revolvers with 4" barrels. Do you see a problem here? How can a security firm, such as Loomis, Brinks, etc., legally obtain firearms for their guards if they can't purchase them from a dealer or business? The classified ads in this issue contain a wanted ad for 4" revolvers. Guess who placed that ad? They can buy from private individuals but not from a licensed establishment. We are hearing that a lawsuit is in the offing. It would be interesting to see how the government defends their actions this time. ========================= Now flip to page 14, the classifieds: ========================= Wanted: 12 Prohibited, 4" Smith & Wesson Large frame .38 Revolvers, Model 10 or 64 Grandfathered or Not Grandfathered Call: Kelvin, (work) 8am-10am (416) 661-2725, (home) 7pm-10pm (905) 822-7893 ========================= I have a fully engraved model 67. It's a 4" barrel. Would they buy that one? Naaaaaaaaaaaaa. Bye. Al. "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" (If you seek peace, prepare for war.) Appius Claudius (the Blind), Roman Senate, 281 BC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:12:21 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: RE-MARKING A FIREARM Subject: RE-MARKING A FIREARM > >I am interested in re-marking my AR-15 with M-16 markings. The words > >"AR-15A2 SPORTER II" would be welded over and re-stamped with "M-16A1", and > >the words "SAFE-SEMI-FULL" would be stamped around the selector switch. This > >is to make it look as close to the military version as possible. The rifle > >will remain semi-automatic regardless of the markings (ie. there is no auto > >sear hole nor any M-16 parts inside), and the correct serial number and > >caliber will be properly indicated. > Peter Kearns wrote: You may wish to consider that when the aluminum alloy frame you intend to weld on was made, it was specially heat treated so that it would withstand the pressures of thousands of rounds. The milspec finish also enhances the frame strength, (slightly.) If you grind into the aluminum alloy and then weld over where the model and description was, you will weaken that area. When you have the receiver refinished, the only options available will (most probably) be teflon or some type of plating. I don't know of anyone in Canada offering the manganese / iron oxide coating used on military arms. Be careful. (I do like the idea of legally altering the model, as it will certainly annoy the feds!) regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: There is nothing in the Criminal Code or firearms Act that requires you notify the feds of the changes. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:12:08 -0600 From: Dan MacInnis Subject: I am in good compnay. Toronto Star, this morning, Saturday October 16th. Front page article, continued on page A30, states we are "gun nuts", "part of a pro-gun radical crowd that goes on the Internet advising others" on how to beat the law. Dave Tomlinson gets honourable mention, alas, his picture is not available (maybe if he shaved?) but Wendy Cukier is shown 256 colour sitting on a wall or deck in full splendor. Could anyone so fashionable be wrong and the picture of a man from Central Ontario with an arm full of firearms be so bad? Jean Valin says he was afraid to have his picture shown, death threats which he takes seriously. They never asked me. My wife is ambivalent to the issue, but she laughed when I told her the Star says over 100 people per month are shot in Canada? 1300 per year, they say in that article. And the reason registration is so slow is the firearms owners in Canada have not been well informed about it, (imagine, us not informed about it?) so he is going to spend even more than the admitted 190 million dollars wasted so far. This was the proverbial last straw for this "radical gun nut", I know what I am going to do, it is .. Hey, I almost got roped in to telling the whole world how I intend to deal with the situation, which is mute, I sold, no, gave away for peanuts, my firearms last year. So my western brethern, Albertans who kill more people with guns than civilized Central Canadians, but not quite as many as those poverty stricken New Brunswickers according to this article, how abut giving me a big welcome to your club? I always wanted to be part of something, anything, so "pro-gun radical crowd" sounds OK to me. Anyone golf? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:13:43 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Re: [alert] BCWF ALERT Al Springer wrote: > >Someone has decided - whether it was the Chief Firearm Officer in B.C., the > >RCMP or some federal bureaucrat - that if you have a firearm that is to be > >returned to you from the police, that you must possess a valid FAC or a new > >possession or new possession/acquisition license to get the firearm back. > >They have decided that your "deemed" possession of the firearm no longer > >exists after the firearm leaves your possession, for any reason. > > > >This would be whether it was seized by the police for any reason, stolen > >from you, or even left with the police for safe keeping. > > > >They have also been instructed that they will not return a firearm to its > >lawful owner until the return has been authorized by the Chief Firearm > >Officer even if a court order is in place. That would appear to place the > >CFO above the courts. I received an email from Myles Brun in your area a few days ago. He told me that a friend of his is in exactly this position: a provincial court judge has ordered the firearms returned to the owner and the local detachment is refusing to return them. Apparently, the magistrate told Myles and his friend that he really didn't know how to make the police comply with his court order. This astonishes me somewhat. I would think that, in the absence of any other order from a superior court, if the provincial magistrate issued an order to the local RCMP detachment commander to surrender the firearms to the court, and they refused to do so, then he could send the sherriff's to arrest the commander and bring him before the court for contempt. I believe I suggested to Miles that he look into getting the order confirmed with a QB order, they would probably take THAT order a little more seriously. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:13:10 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Another Shooting Range Ordered Closed Stopped at Kootenay Wild in Cranbrook yesterday and was told that our provincial shooting range wizards have ordered the local range closed. There has not been an accident at this range within my memory (okay, as far as that goes, how many documented bona fide accidents have there been at shooting ranges in Canada in the last ten years)? I don't know whether the ordered closure applies to just one part of the range complex or all. Having shot at all these ranges, I believe they are as safe as any range I have ever shot at - police and military included - and in fact safer than most. This has occurred in the riding of NDP MLA Erda Walsh - a proud supporter of Glen Clark, and a strong believer that BC should help the Feds by administering the Firearms Act. Her explanation to me as to why this is the best option for firearms owners in BC can best be paraphrased with the explanation that it is better to be raped by somebody who claims to care for your wellbeing than to be raped by a stranger. Erda is best known for being conspiciously absent when large public meetings are held in her home town to protest firearms legislation, arbitrary cancellation of the grizzly season, and mismanagement of wildlife resources - but being front and center every time their is a photo opportunity at the beginning of a new community center, business, etc. Amazing how flexible her schedule can be in those instances! Anyway, chalk up one more range kill for Ujaal and his anti gun cronies that make up BC's NDP government. They claim they are not anti gun at all - but their statements and their actions speak differently. Something for BC voters to keep in mind when we have our next election. PS: Don't bother writing Erda: the only letters she answers are those which tell her what a wonderful job she is doing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:12:28 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Justice Department misleading PUBLICATION WINNIPEG FREE PRESS DATE : SAT OCT.09,1999 PAGE : A19 CLASS : Letters to Editor Justice Department misleading Regarding the article Justice Department hiding the truth about the total cost of gun registry, which reported that Justice Department spokesperson Jean Valin accused me of double-counting figures to come up with the $215-million price tag for the gun registry (Gun control registry aims to iron out kinks ,Winnipeg Free Press, Sept. 27). Mr. Valin should get copies of the Access to Information Law requests his department sends to my office before he makes such ridiculous statements. On June 14, 1999, the Justice Department sent me 151 pages of documents in response to my ATI request [Departmental File A98-00283] and used cabinet secrecy to hide 172 pages of budget documents from me. However, they did provide one spreadsheet titled, Canadian Firearms Centre, Expenditure from 1995-96 to 1998-99. This departmental document provides detailed expenditures for 50 different budget items within the Canadian Firearms Centre over the last five years. In the column, expenditures to date (1995-98), the grand total recorded is: $82,409,371. In the column, projected expenditures 1998-99, the Grand Total recorded is: $133,506,240. This adds up to $215,915,611 spent as of March 31, 1999. User fees collected as of May 31, 1999 amounted to only $2,941,311, -- $213 million short of the actual costs. It's Mr. Valin and his minister who are misleading Canadians by not honestly reporting the total cost of the Liberal's ill-conceived gun registration scheme and by using cabinet secrecy to hide the truth. They simply cannot be believed when they say that user fees will cover the entire costs. For copies of the ATI requests referred to in this letter, please call my Ottawa office at (613) 992-4394. GARRY BREITKREUZ, MP Ottawa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:13:49 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: excerpts from the United Alternative Discussion Draft which might be of immediate interest Here are excerpts from the United Alternative Discussion Draft which might be of immediate interest to firearms owners. Whether you agree with the UA or not you should be made aware of these statements. A full text is available on the internet and can be accessed below, along with feedback forms: - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- UNITED ALTERNATIVE DECLARATION OF POLICY DISCUSSION DRAFT FOR PUBLIC INPUT 1st October, 1999 ...sample Discussion Report Cover Sheet and a Discussion Report Form to be used for feedback. Since there is very little time for tabulation of the results, it would be a great help if you could use the electronic form provided on the United Alternative website www.unitedalt.org or e-mail the results to policy@unitedalt.org. The deadline for submissions is November 19, 1999. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Recognize and affirm the historic common law right to ownership and enjoyment of private property 13. We believe the right to own, use and benefit from private property (including real, intellectual and personal property), and to contract freely, lies at the very heart of our legal and economic systems and distinguishes a free society. Therefore, we will amend the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to include this right, as well as a guarantee that no person shall be deprived of it without the due process of law and full, just and timely compensation. Respect and support for law and order, including substantial reform of the criminal justice system 24. We are committed to keeping guns out of the hands of criminals as a necessary part of making our communities safe. We will maintain the long-standing national handgun registry, while repealing Bill C-68 due to its costly and ineffective nature. We will increase mandatory penalties for using a firearm in the commission of a crime. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:12:24 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Gun dealer has licence reinstated PUBLICATION: The Regina Leader-Post DATE: 99.10.14 SECTION: Local and National PAGE: A5 BYLINE: Wiebe, Andrea Gun dealer has licence reinstated A Regina gun store owner hopes he can recover after an order revoking his sales licence cost him about a month's worth of business during the most lucrative time of the year. Provincial court Judge Claude Fafard ordered that the licence - which allows TNT Gunworks owner Darryl Schemenauer to sell and service firearms - be reissued after a hearing that wrapped up Wednesday. "I've missed the big part of the season. If I get my licence back ASAP, I should be able to bounce back, but it will be tough," said Schemenauer. He hopes to have his reissued licence by Friday, when he will resume his regular sales. Schemenauer applied for the court to review a Sept. 16 order by Saskatchewan's Chief Firearms Officer, Al Terry, preventing him from selling and servicing firearms. The order was made after the Regina Police Service laid criminal charges against Schemenauer, who is accused of transferring a firearm without lawful authority, and possessing large-capacity magazines without an appropriate licence. Defence lawyer Glen Dowling argued revoking Schemenauer's licence pending the conclusion of his criminal proceedings was killing Schemenauer's business. That result was too drastic for the offences alleged against Schemenauer - offences for which he may not be convicted, Dowling told the court. The judge agreed in the end, though he commented the loss of Schemenauer's licence may make Schemenauer more cautious when it comes to complying with legislation governing firearms. "It has awakened Mr. Schemenauer to complying (with the legislation), and to putting procedures in place to comply," Fafard noted. Outside of court, Dowling commented that Fafard's decision was very well thought out, considering public safety as well as individual rights. "It took into account the personal circumstances of the applicant, Mr. Schemenauer, the undue hardship the closure of his business and the devastating effect it would have on him and his family and his employees." Fafard attached stringent conditions to Schemenauer's reissued licence, including rigorous documentation and storage requirements, and that the reissued licence be reviewed if Schemenauer is later convicted of firearms offences. Schemenauer is back in court today on his criminal charges. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:12:54 -0600 From: Stuart Reid Subject: NFA FUND RAISING Some time ago i posted an idea of building a custom rifle and raffleing it off to raise money for the NFA the response was positive with offers of parts and labour from a number of people and buisness. Unfortunatly the rules surrounding raffles have made it impossible to go ahead with this idea. Since that time i have been busy with my composite stocks having gotten them excepted by brownell's and a new distributor in Australia, You can find them in the new brownell's catalouge under Wildcat Composites. So its time to put my money where my mouth is when it comes to raising money for the NFA. Today i spoke with Dave Tomlinson about donating 5 of my most popular stocks to be given away by donation to the NFA.. My stocks sell for $190.00 us retail and for a donation of 200.00 canadian you folks do the math as to how much you would save, not to mention the ITAR B.S. Now that you would be giving a donation to the NFA and getting the stock for free i do believe that it would be GST exempt as well. You would have to confirm that with the NFA . This is a first come first serve proposal, the price i have listed is 25.00 dollars less than dealer/ gunsmith cost , This is a one time offer so i apolagise for ruffling any dealer or gunsmiths feathers but the money raised for the NFA will help keep us all in business later. These stocks will be shipped tomorrow Oct 15 to the NFA in Calgary. ALL REMINGTON STOCKS ARE CLASSIC STYLE 1 Remington 700 BDL long Action Prerelieved action bed to fit, full I beam Magnum barrel channel 22.7 ounces , 1 Remington 700 BDL Short Action full i beam , 23.0 ounces 1 Remington 700 BDL Short Action Webed grip area ultra light 17.4 ounces 1 Remington Model 7 BDL Webed grip area Ultralight 17.0 ounces youth model has 12" lenght of pull with no recoil pad. 1 Mauser stock made for the FN Browning, Long slender forend and a raised cheek piece, will fit many mauser actions with minor modifications. These are not drop in stocks they are blanks and need recoil pads installed and bedded to fit. They come in a gelcoat finnish and have aluminium blocks that must be drilled and taped for the sling swivel studs. Then preped and painted. Stuart Reid Wildcat Composites fibergls@oanet.com (780) 434-6137 p.s. I challenge any other manufacturer or dealer to donate any product that could be sold on the shop nfa web site. or any of the shooters out there that could go through their collection of no longer used goodies like dies that you no longer have a gun for or an old scope and donate it to your local NFA to sell at the numerous gun show that they attend. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:14:06 -0600 From: "Trowell" Subject: WAKE-UP! Letters to the Editor NATIONAL POST 300 - 1450 Don Mills Road Don Mills, Ontario M3B 3R5 TEL: (416) 383-2300 FAX: (416) 442-2209 letters@nationalpost.com Matthew Trowell 1 Trefann Street, Suite H Toronto, Ontario M5A 3A9 TEL/FAX: 416-360-6705 prpinc@sprynet.com _______________________________ Dear Editor: Regarding: National Post DATE: 1999.10.12 EDITION: National SECTION: News PAGE: A11 BYLINE: Jan Cienski _______________________________ According to the TECHNICAL REPORT REVIEW OF FIREARMS REGISTRATION, of Terence Wade and Roger Tennuci, RES Policy Research Inc., Ottawa, November 1994, as polled by Angus Reid Group, on behalf of the Department of Justice, Canada. "The best estimates suggest that ... one-quarter of Canadian households own at least one firearm [1]." Nothing could harm the defence of the Firearms Act more than that truth. Nothing could do more to dispel the notion that firearms owners are a bunch of "Neanderthals and rednecks," than the Justice Department's own facts. Nothing could possibly frighten non-firearms owning gun-controllers more, than an articulate, well-reasoned, coherent rebuttal of their paranoia, than the fact that gun-owners are less careless, accident- or violence-prone than they themselves are. Nothing, that is, but their own ignorance. Wake-up! As the 1994 DoJ, National Survey of Firearms Ownership, points out, gun owners are everywhere, fixing our cars, computers and teeth, building our homes and schools, growing our food, delivering our mail, serving our meals, teaching our children, entertaining us, polishing our shoes and saving our lives. By the way, some of them also appreciate art, music and literature. We are surrounded, daily, by people who are no more likely to use those guns in the commission of an act of criminal violence, because they happen to own a gun, then you are, because you happen not to. One thing is certain though, non-gun owners are far more likely to cause harm to themselves and others, or suffer accidental death or injury, from misuse of a gun, than a law-abiding gun owner, familiar with its safe handling and operation. Non-gun owners have a lot to learn from people who own guns, first and foremost, how to use one responsibly and safely. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Reference: http://cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/Research/Reports_2/registration_en.html The best estimates suggest that there are in the order of 6,000,000 firearms in Canada. The number of weapons recorded in the Restricted Weapons Registration System maintained by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police at the end of 1993 was 1,221,179. At least 5,000,000 firearms are unrestricted and not therefore subject to registration. Approximately one-quarter of Canadian households own at least one firearm [1]." [1] Department of Justice Canada, National Survey of Firearm Ownership in Canada (1991, Angus Reid Group) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:11:58 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Edmonton Gun Show I attended a (somewhat downsized) Edmonton gun show today and offer the following observations. 1) The size of the show is less than half of what it used to be, but this hasn't diminished the interest. The show was packed, and people were spending. 2) People seem to be realizing, (at last) that for dealers to stay around they must have customers, and the illegal gun trafficking wasn't happening at this show as it did at the last show I attended. People please realise that by buying from illegal sources you are killing the gun dealers who attend gun shows. I talked with one who watched while some yahoo openly sold overpriced junk (without even demanding an FAC be produced) a few tables away while the licenced dealer sold nothing..... How long can dealers live on smiles and intelligent chatter? You be the judge. 3) We had a good time playing "count the undercover cops!" We saw a gaggle of three, (who were at least smart enough to keep their coats buttoned to hide the buffalo hewads on their belt buckles.) Pity they weren't smart enough to turn their pagers off though! 4) The dealers all said it was a great show, (except Bassano Bob) but he always grumbles a lot anyway! (He did smile though after "yer 'umble servant" purchased an item. 5) There was no NFA presence at the show. If they want us as members, then they should at least make the effort. Both myself and an NFA Field Officer were really surprised about this, as we understood that the NFA would be there, and had attended to volunteer time at the booth....... 6) No CFO people there. They have given up all pretence of caring, and are now ignoring us and hoping we will fade away.......... We won't. 7) Great supplies of reloading components. One dealer had managed to bring in a load of stuff, and I stocked up with 5000 Federal Gold Medal Small Rifle Match Primers, which there aren't any in this area because Federal, Winchester and Remington plain aren't shipping to the commie country on their northern border.......... 8) Al Voth, (a writer of firearms related novels) attended and was really well received by people who read his last book. (reviewed recently by Mike Toma.) 9) Lots of young people. At least they will be around to keep fighting. Encourage and help all the young people you can because otherwise we will be the last firearms enthusiasts, and the liberals will have beaten us. 10) I spoke to "Simon" and he tells me that he is setting up a website overseas to wage "guerilla war" on the liberals, Joe Clark regressives, and anyone else who he figures is anti gun. Apparently he (or one of his gnomes) placed "Registration equals Confiscation," Anne McLellan wants your guns! stickers in all the elevators at the CFO's building. Seems "Simon" will go after individual liberals right in their own riding, and he appears to have decided to torpedo Preston's pipedream and kill UA. (I offered to help with that!) 11) I met with two new firearms dealers at the show. I have known Phil and Dianne Harnoir for quite a few years and thought they were too sensible to risk their savings in such a venture, but they have started their own company selling firearms and accessories at shows across Canada. They appear to be doing well and are apparently happy with their new vocation. If you see "P & D" at a show introduce yourself and please encourage them. We need more like them if we are to survive. Mention my name and you may get a discount, (or perhaps they may run you off!) All in all not a bad little show. Nice people enjoying themselves, and spending money. Attend the local shows in your area, I can assure you that you will indeed have fun. regards, Peter Kearns (Notice I never panned LUFA who didn't bother to attend the show either!) Simon says: "We are losing established firearms related businesses on a large scale. Our hope for the future could be those itinerant dealers and "weekend warriors" who purchase space at the shows, so please support the gun shows." ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #179 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:parry@ionline.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ Digest Back-issues: by FTP (cd pub/cdn-firearms/Digests), or visit the Cdn-Firearms web site (above), or put the next command in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n022 end (022 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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