Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, October 24 1999 Volume 03 : Number 185 In this issue: Re: C-68 Signs My mistake...Re: London Free Press Stasts Re: Jean Valin's death threats.... reregistration?? $40M Lawsuit CALIFORNIA ORDERS STATE-WIDE CONFISCATION Re: and now in a lighter vein....... Reminton X100 to be restricted? Medical organizations who distort the truth Re: Dalton Camp entitled "Journalists are the target" US Purchases Re: Reminton X100 to be restricted? CILA Request for Assistance The Salmon Arm Show & Solidarity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:29:41 -0600 From: lundgark@telusplanet.net Subject: Re: C-68 Signs Hi Dan, I have about 30 of them. Where would you like them shipped to? I did buy these, so a donation to the NFA in the amount of the value of the posters and the cost of shipping would make me very pleased. Jerrold At 05:43 AM 21/10/1999 -0600, you wrote: >Sask. Branch has had a request for a quantity of the "Remember C-68 >When You Vote" plastic bag type signs. Anyone having any left please >contact me by e-mail or phone (306) 332-3907. Request is urgent. Thanks > Dan Lupichuk > Sask. Pres. NFA > > Karen & Jerrold Lundgard Peace River, Alberta mailto:lundgark@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:22:49 -0600 From: "Jean-Francois Avon" Subject: My mistake...Re: London Free Press Stasts Sorry, I've made a mistake. Come to think of it, maybe I'll qualify for a lucrative job with the anti- lobby as their statistician! :-) Ciao jfa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:22:46 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: Jean Valin's death threats.... Hey Jean, Did you ever think that maybe the threats you say you received were meant for someone who really was important, and got misdirected to you? (I personally can't see anyone wasting their time on Jean Valin, and I think like all the other times he made up a story........) regards, Peter Kearns Simon says: I think Mr. Valin is trying to make people believe he is of some importance..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:22:56 -0600 From: James Cox Subject: reregistration?? I don't know how credible this is, but I'd like input...Someone mentioned to me today that the re-registration of prohibited or restricted firearms has been changed to 31 Nov 99. After this would come the inevitable - confiscation and such. Is there any truth to this, and if so, why weren't we told. Maybe this is a red herring. However it's too important not to comment on. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:23:00 -0600 From: "Robert E. Pretty" Subject: $40M Lawsuit Bear hunters take aim at Harris in $40M lawsuit by Natalie Armstrong Toronto - Premier Mike Harris has been named in a $40-million lawsuit by the Ontario Black Bear Association, which is seeking "full compensation" for the provincial government's cancellation of the bear hunt last spring. Natural Resources Minister John Snobelen, the Ontario government and animal rights activist Robert Schad are also named in the legal action, which was announced yesterday - a day before the province's throne speech - by the association representing 800 lodge operators, outfitters and guides. "They've absolutely destroyed us for their own political whims. That's an illegal act," association president Gerry Vautour told a news conference. "No premier has the right to take my livelihood for his own personal gain." He added that the reputation of Northern Ontario outfitters has been smeared in the U.S. because many couldn't pay back deposits made by American bear hunters who booked lodges months before the ban was announced. The lawsuit was originally filed last month and got approval to proceed about two weeks ago, according to the association's Toronto lawyer, Mark Arnold. He added that he has applied for a jury to hear the trial, which will take place in Ontario Superior Court in Sault Ste. Marie. The association is suing the Ontario government on the grounds of breach of contract, negligence, breach of fiduciary duty, breach of rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, abuse of process, misfeasance of public office, intentional interference with economic relations and conspiracy. the $40 million would provide the group's 800 members with about $50,000 on average. Mr Vautour said while he was paid $7,250 from the province in compensation for the hunt's cancellation, he still owes $14,000 U.S. to Americans who had pre-booked his lodge, located near Massey, Ont., about 100 kilometres west of Sudbury. He added that in total he owed about $67,000 for this year alone as a result of the cancellation. The Ontario government announced last winter that it was canceling the annual spring bear hunt that draws an estimated 8,000 hunters. It's concern was that too many cubs were being orphaned in the hunt and Mr. Snobelen called on other provinces to follow suit. The ban on spring bear hunting also sparked a short-lived boycott of Canada by American rocker Ted Nugent, an avid hunter. At the time, the province committed to spending $2 million to compensate about 934 tourists outfitters in Northern Ontario. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:23:04 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: CALIFORNIA ORDERS STATE-WIDE CONFISCATION (http://nrawinningteam.com/confiscati California's Registered "Assault Weapon" Confiscation Program HAS BEGUN! If you are a targeted California resident and receive a confiscation order similar to those shown below, NRA will file and fund a lawsuit on your behalf. Click here for details. Thanks to radio personality/author Geoff Metcalf of KSFO 560 AM San Francisco for mirroring this page and spreading the word! 8/20 Update:DOJ, HCI Drop Lawsuit to FURTHER THIS PLAN - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- CALIFORNIA ORDERS STATE-WIDE CONFISCATION - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gov. Gray Davis June 30, 1999 - NRAWinningTeam.com has just aquired California Department of Justice documents issued by the Attorney General's Office (Democrat Bill Lockyer) ordering the confiscation of "Assault Weapons" as defined by the Roberti-Roos Act that were legally registered under the previous administration. AG Bill Lockyer Who says registration doesn't lead to confiscation? Click to view each California Department of Justice document page... Confiscation Orders (120K) Letter to You Pg. 1 (129K) Letter to You Pg. 2 (40K) "Please" Sign and Return (97K) Who said "Nobody wants to confiscate guns"? Former AG Dan Lungren In 1998, the previous Attorney General (Republican Dan Lungren), ordered SKS Confiscation. In both of these cases... a.. CRIMINALS EXEMPT - The Supreme Court has protected criminals against prosecution for both failing to register firearms and possessing unregistered ones with Haynes v. US. b.. LAW-ABIDING GUN-OWNERS, who had gone out of their way to remain law-abiding (and registered their guns), are rewarded with the confiscation of those arms. (And threatened with FELONY prosecution even after they relinquish their guns!) c.. VIOLENT CRIMINALS, who don't register guns and aren't inconvenienced by laws, are rewarded with more unarmed victims on which to prey. (And... they get to keep their real assault weapons because nobody knows they have them!) Department of what? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:01:21 -0600 From: "Peter Kearns" Subject: Re: and now in a lighter vein....... FOLLOWING IS A PERSONAL REPLY TO MY POSTING ABOUT JEAN VALINS" MYTHICAL DEATH THREATS...... (NAME REMOVED TO PROTECT THE "INDECENT.") > > Hi Peter, > > I really do not understand why any firearms owner would threaten Mr. Valin. He is really one of our best allies in showing how incompetent and deceitful these folks are! We do not harm our own... I strongly suspect any so called "death threats" are Mr. Valins wishful thinking, or are possibly his mis-interpretation of disagreement with his views. Mr Valin has divorced himself from the truth long ago. Why should we believe this statement? The resistance by hundreds of thousands of Canadians to the firearms act has been non violent. There have been no shots fired in anger, nor have there been mail boxes or well sites blown up, or any barns burned. No politicians have been kidnapped and killed. Firearms owners have not used pepper spray on those who oppose them but they have demonstrated peaceably in mass on Parliament Hill while, unknown them, police with rifles watched from the roof tops. The Minister O' Justice did not take this opportunity to speak to these folks - she snubbed them! Peter Kearns wrote: I still believe our friend Valin is "inventing' or "spinning" again. One of my more antisocial customers summed it up well. he said that Valin is lying, because nobody would waste their effort on such an insignificant federal employee. (That is the cleaned up version!) Simon says: Valin has lied publicly for the past few years. What makes you think he would change? (Yea Jean, theyr'e out to get you, and WE all believe you!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:01:14 -0600 From: Tom MacMillan Subject: Reminton X100 to be restricted? While reading through the cast bullet list at: CB-L@onelist.com/, a web page known as Precision Shooting Guild was mentioned. http://psguild.com/. The author dropped this bombshell... I have this on fairly good authority that, "the Remington XP 100 is to be moved to the restricted list in Canada in the near future. You will no longer be able to hunt with this weopon." I only just saw my first example of the XP100 this past week at the local gunsmith shop. The proud owner told me how he has two switch barrels, 30-30 WCF & 45-70 Govt., for it. Quite the deer rifle... Somehow, I rather doubt the owner of this piece of hardware is any danger to society at large... The obvious question, is Jody Harris at Precision Shooting Guild correct in his forecast? If true, this is quite enough to confirm to me beyond any shadow of a doubt that the goverment means to eventually ban ALL guns and All shooting activities of any sort! Please comment!!! ===== The above opinions are entirely those of the author! Please visit the National Firearms Association web pages at: http://www.nfa.ca/ Tom MacMillan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:12:38 -0600 From: "Barry Glasgow" Subject: Medical organizations who distort the truth I thought that politicized groups like the Center for Desease Control in the US were the only ones guilty of distorting facts in order to influence public policy decisions. After reading the Alberta Centre for Injury Control and Research report, "Firearms FACTS", it is obvious that this shameful practice is going on right here in Canada. (see http://www.med.ualberta.ca/acicr/) As a result of such misrepresention of facts to an unsuspecting public, the federal government has been able to waste more than $300 million (and counting) to implement a firearms registry (that replicates the 65-year-old failed handgun registry) that will do nothing to prevent the injuries and deaths referred to in ACICR "fact" sheet. Those hundreds of millions of dollars could have been better spent on medical research and programs to council and educate those people who are most at risk to such misadventures. The use of vague terms such as "twice the national average" when discussing child firearms deaths is at best statistically misguided and at worst, professionally dishonest. Comparisons to rare forms of blood deseases like leukemia clearly shows this. The number of children accidentally killed in Canada with firearms is so small as to be statistically insignificant. Credible scientists refrain from making causative relationships using such small numbers for precisely that reason. One could just as easily use the statistic showing that lightning killed more people in 1987 than did legally owned handguns. Why is the ACICR deviating from standard scientific practices in this regard ? And why are firearms being singled out as a major contributor to child deaths when swimming pools account for more than 3 times that ? Not one mention of swimming pool drownings of children is made in the Injury Prevention web page. Ironically, "Firearms FACTS" states that "The rate of children killed with guns in Alberta is almost twice the national average and it is in fact comparable to the combined rates of Israel and Northern Ireland. In Israel, practically every household owns firearms - mostly of the military variety. If medical professionals want to start pointing fingers at guns and gun owners as significant contributors to death and injury in Canada, why not start in their own back yard ? In 1994, there were 38 fatal gun accidents in Canada while there were 212 deaths as a result of surgical/medical misadventure. Loaded comments such as "95% of all deaths in Alberta in 1997 involving firearms were intentional" are inflamatory and are designed more for their shock value than any pretense at educating. Neglecting to remind readers that 75-80% of these intentional shootings are suicides is unprofessional and deceitful. And how does suicide fall into the realm of injury prevention, anyway ? Suicide is a conscious, personal decision that comes about as a result of extendeed periods of psychological turmoil. This is in the domain of mental health. And whether such people choose to shoot themselves as opposed to hanging themselves or jumping off a roof is hardly an excuse for medical professionals to start meddling in the affairs of the millions of citizens who are of sound mind and responsible nature. If they were truly serious about reducing the few gun accidents that do occur, then they would be pushing the federal government to fund firearms safety training for high-school students. But any time that's ever been suggested, anti-firearms groups howl that it would encourage kids to be responsible gun owners. Far better for them to accidently shoot each other out of ignorance, I suppose. As for international comparisons, I note that the only references given are from the discredited Kellerman study and whatever biased studies were contracted by our federal Justice Department - whose stated goal is to reduce (if not eliminate) privately owned firearms. Where are the references to Kleck, Lott, Kates, Wright and Rossi and a host of other peer-reviewed research ? This is an obviously biased selection of studies that were designed to influence non-gun owning citizens to support ever-increasing restrictions on gun owning citizens and it reflects the unprofessional position ACICR chosen to take on this issue. How is such an organization to be trusted on any other issue of importance ? And to make matters worse, hundreds of thousands of Alberta hunters and target shooters are seeing their own tax dollars being used to influence public opinion against them. The Alberta Centre for Injury Control and Research would do well to avoid latching onto politically motivated research and stick to those programs that will actually provide some benefit to Alberta's citizens. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:12:42 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Re: Dalton Camp entitled "Journalists are the target" To the Editor: I read Mr. Camp's editorial with amusement. I actually thought he had a passing clue about this country's firearms debate but it would seem not. I was equally surprised to see that our hardened Mr. Camp was troubled by the idea of media accountability. I realize that some media types will find this a new and frighteningly novel concept. Yes Mr. Camp, journalists are accountable for their "opinions" just like everyone else; it would seem some journalists more than others... But take heart Mr. C, Prof. Dorans asked for the best and the worst, he hasn't created a category for the most sanctimonious... yet. John Perocchio Kanata, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:12:46 -0600 From: tulloch@planet.eon.net Subject: US Purchases I was in Portland, Oregon 2 weeks ago. I asked the folks behind the counter, at a gun store, about the ITAR export law. It appears that the US govt. informs it's own citizens about as well as the Kanadian govt. informs us. They knew NOTHING about ITAR. I also found it interesting that the BATF can do a background check on a US citizen in about 15 min. to approve a firearms purchase. Too bad that the feral govt. can't seem to manage that. Looks like those are just a couple more things that make you go hmmmm. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:50:17 -0600 From: Tom MacMillan Subject: Re: Reminton X100 to be restricted? Further to my previous posting of Octtober 23/99. I received this reply to my query. >Unfortunately the author of this posting misquoted his >source. The article said: >"any rifle be it varmint or benchrest that has been >made from a Remington XP100 action will be >reclassified >as a restricted weapon." >Any XP100 handguns are of course already restricted. > mike ======================================================= The gun I had the good fortune to view was a Thompson Centre product with a rifle type stock and I believe, 16 inch barrel. The owner thought the muzzle blast and recoil OK but I have some misgivings about that, especially in 45-70 Goverment. that bullet looked awflly big! ===== The above opinions are entirely those of the author! Please visit the National Firearms Association web pages at: http://www.nfa.ca/ Tom MacMillan ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:50:24 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA Request for Assistance CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - --------------------------------------------- Dear Firearms Owner, I am seeking your assistance in confirming the content and date of a television broadcast that took place coast to coast within the last 2 years. On CTV's Sunday Edition, out of CJOH Ottawa, host Mike Duffy commented that what he was about to say would make him unpopular with his colleagues in the media. He stated that the reporting of the news in Canada is so left-leaning, L(l)iberal and biased that he was ashamed. Agreeing wholeheartedly with his position was co-host and Sun Parliamentary Affairs Columnist, Michael Harris, who added that the reporting of the news is so anti-Reform. I would like to know if you can confirm seeing and hearing this statement on Sunday Edition. Can you confirm the exact date? Do you have a videotape or audiotape of the program? If you can shed some light on this issue, it would be appreciated if you would contact me promptly. Thanks, in advance, for your cooperation. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Legislative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON. L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 e-mail: teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 e-mail: aldorans@magma.ca Home: http://www.cila.org A proud member of the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities / Forum du Monde sur le Futur d'Activites des Sports des Armes a Feu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:50:21 -0600 From: LCS Subject: The Salmon Arm Show & Solidarity The Show goes well and most important is that NCS BC is meeting with our brothers and sisters of the 1st Nations and informing them of the traps set for them in the Lie and Fraud of CFA & CCC amendments therein. The vast majority of individuals in the nations have no idea of what horror is now upon them. They will have the knowledge now. NCS BC is seeing to that as fast as possible. The solidarity is spreading fast and wide. We will be ready when the time comes. The Legal Care Plan Service has also been a success. More and more RFC brothers and sisters are coming on board and joining up to protect themselves, their families, the clubs, groups, friends and neighbors. And yes even communities. Taking it to the people is working. Many of you have wondered what MAC SOG [Mete Action Council Special Operations Group]stood for in my addy, many have tried to malign me with it, many have spread false rumors that it represents a special service US military force and some have thought it was just "smoke". Well now you can go to a web site and see for yourself what it really is. I am proud to present to the RFC a web site that represents a "portion" of the true 1st Nations being. I am of the Sioux Nation in "Saskatchewan" [proud of it] enjoy the site look it over and remember what you see the next time you see/hear the disinformation propaganda in the media of the crazy Indians. Any questiions or comments please reply to me. Solidarity will keep us safe. The Truth Is Out There ! Research, Expose & Take it to the "People". Rod. Bugaresti NCSBC [ VP Communications - Prov. Coordinator ] Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/9460/index.html MAC SOG [member/coordinator] , Web site @ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5472/path.html BCCPD [Member/Activist] , CIA [member/contributor] , New Phoenix Firearms Association > "AKA- NFA" - *("original concept" supporter). TAKE NOTE : :-) ******************************************** "Take up our quarrel with the foe, to you from failing hands we throw the torch. Be Yours To Hold It High. If yea break faith with us who died we shall not sleep though poppies grow in Flanders Fields." - - Col. J. McCrae - Can. Army Medical Corp. -1914-1918. - ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #185 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:parry@ionline.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ Digest Back-issues: by FTP (cd pub/cdn-firearms/Digests), or visit the Cdn-Firearms web site (above), or put the next command in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n022 end (022 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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