Cdn-Firearms Digest Tuesday, October 26 1999 Volume 03 : Number 186 In this issue: Re: Dalton Camp entitled "Journalists are the target" Help please Small Handguns CILA Letter to the Charlotteown Guardian Editor Re: [alert] BCWF ALERT Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #185 firearms registration Remington model 17 Help please RE: [m1-m14] M1 converted to use BAR mags California Confiscation Order URL Re: Buying gun stuff in the States Courage and the Lieberals Re: Survey found big majority approves of Firearms Act" Re: firearms registration Re: NEW NFA CONVERT [Fwd: 32gg shotgun ammo] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:34:22 -0600 From: "Alan Harper" Subject: Re: Dalton Camp entitled "Journalists are the target" > To the Editor: > I read Mr. Camp's editorial with amusement. I actually thought he had a > passing clue about this country's firearms debate but it would seem not. > I was equally surprised to see that our hardened Mr. Camp was troubled by > the idea of media accountability. I realize that some media types will find > this a new and frighteningly novel concept. Yes Mr. Camp, journalists are > accountable for their "opinions" just like everyone else; it would seem some > journalists more than others... > But take heart Mr. C, Prof. Dorans asked for the best and the worst, he > hasn't created a category for the most sanctimonious... yet. > John Perocchio > Kanata, Ontario ======================= The media are digging their own graves. Most of them are assisting the government to disarm the general public. If the general public ever does get totally disarmed, the media will find out what totalitarianism means to them. The media, for the most part, reports the most uncomplimentary things about firearms. Only criminal activity is reported. By a lot of subtle implication, honest, decent people are constantly made to look questionable, at best, and criminal, at worst, just for the mere fact of possession of a firearm. In ALL the TV and movies, our children are taught the worst possible things about what to do with a firearm. I took an 8 year old boy to the range, here in Kingston, last Saturday. He had never handled a firearm before. While I was unloading the equipment, he picked up my SIG 226, 9mm, and pointed it at me making shooting noises (the gun was unloaded, with a trigger lock on it). I had to tell myself not to yell at him and to explain, patiently, the safety rules and why we use them. But, that is a good example of what the media has taught our children. They teach that the first thing you do with a firearm is point it at someone and fill them full of lead. And all our children are taught this, over and over. Every day our children watch hours of this bull fertilizer. It gets drummed into their heads. I try to teach as many of them as I can, the safety rules and why we use them. Many people think that they will keep their kids away from guns and they will be safe. Meanwhile, they are getting the BS propaganda pumped into them from the lobotomy box. Where do kids get the idea that they should shoot their classmates, teachers, etc. The answer is no further away than the nearest TV set, the most effective propaganda machine ever used. The media has plenty to answer for. And answer they will, if ever the public is disarmed. The next target for the government will be freedom of speech and expression. It will be for our own good, of course. It always is. "It's for the children!" will be the battle cry of the censors. After confiscation of our property (firearms) happens, any of our other property or liberties will be fair game. If the media succeeds in assisting the government to disarm us, there will be a brief period of mutual congratulation, before the government turns on the media, with a vengeance, and fashions it into a pure government announcement forum. The Soviet Union had a newspaper called Pravda, which means "Truth". The national joke, spoken in whispers, was that there was no Pravda in Pravda. Bye. Al. "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" (If you seek peace, prepare for war.) Appius Claudius (the Blind), Roman Senate, 281 BC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:34:24 -0600 From: John Fowler Subject: Help please Can anyone provide the telephone number of Keth Long, gunsmith, in Ontario? Many thanx, John T. Fowler Fine photography from Canada http://www.magma.ca/~jfowler http://www.portfolios.com/photog/13998.fowler/index.html Tel: 613-256-4056 Fax: 613-256-3961 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:50:35 -0600 From: "Byting Mouse Computer Services" Subject: Small Handguns I read Mr. Tomlinson`s way of doing things by removing the barrel and cylinder with great interest, I am in the same situation. On the other hand by doing so don`t you loose that possibility of maybe being granfathered under that category? If you have a frame only it is not a 32 or a 25 and it does not have length. Could this play in there favor by not having to deal with the problem anymore? I know this is a very complex situation. In my case the guns have no value, the only reason to have them is to get that right down the road, maybe I am too optimist? Have they decided what they will do comes the 30th of November, go house to house? I will send a donation and an envelope to see that registration of yours, it could be the only way to go. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:50:30 -0600 From: Al Dorans Subject: CILA Letter to the Charlotteown Guardian Editor CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage - --------------------------------------------- Letter to the Charlottetown Guardian Editor Eliminating Media Abuse of Gun Owners Re. "Journalists are the target" (Oct. 20), Dalton Camp's coverage of the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action's Media Accountability Project is sadly lacking. Camp mentions that the program has been developed in response to widely discrepant press coverage on the gun control issue and to numerous complaints from angry firearms owners. The Project seeks positively to honor the first-rate members of the media who are a credit to journalism and to sanction those who vilify firearms owners with biased, prejudiced and discriminatory remarks. Canada's 7 million gun owners will be the eyes and ears of justice. Camp fails, however, to inform readers of substantial media discrimination by neglecting to communicate the many abuses cited in the Project. Responsible gun owners have been labeled variously as "paranoid, red necks, gun nuts, middle-aged balding men, cowboys, being mostly white, NRA toadies, middle-aged balding men, one gold tooth and a misspelled sign, people who told little lies to each other, where Eddie Bauer meets K-Mart, a beefy guy in overalls with a tractor cap, and threats to society". Duh! If such derogatory remarks were directed toward any ethnic group in Canada, there would be howls of outrage and a national inquiry. To document this abuse further, here is a response to the Media Accountability Project from Francesca Gibson of RM Publishing. "Not sure how you got my email; and honestly didn't read all the attached; but I believe these red neck gun nuts are a threat to our society. These trash are the same types who are likely to mistreat animals, even their own pets. No support here." In one fell swoop, a member of the Canadian media just demonized 7 million responsible firearms owners. This is the problem. Indeed, the language associated with the firearms issue is saturated with emotionally loaded words such as assault rifles, weapons, Saturday night specials and gun lobby. One Ottawa reporter even wrote, "What gives them (gun owners) the right to think they can carry around these killing sticks?" The net effect of this blatant prejudice is to paint a distorted negative image of law-abiding firearms owners in the minds of Canadians. For years firearms owners have observed that anti-gun special interest groups have no trouble getting immediate, one-sided media coverage. On the other hand, the firearms community has rarely received fair and equal treatment. Why is this? When asked why the press races to report a shooting fatality, one journalist explained that it boosts television ratings and increases print publication sales. When asked why research demonstrating conclusively that the civilian ownership of firearms in Canada saves 3,300 lives each year was not being published, he claimed that was like eating burnt toast for breakfast. What an outright condemnation of the media by the media! Skewed press coverage has led 80% of Canadians to believe falsely that violent crime is on the rise. In truth, crime has been declining in Canada and the US for the past 7 years. By his own admission, Dalton Camp's subversive strategy is to rig the Media Accountability survey results by asking readers to lie for him and nominate him on the Worst List, whether he deserves it or not. Is such dishonesty and lack of ethics not one of the prime reasons why the Canadian electorate gave Brian Mulroney, Dalton Camp and the Conservatives the bum's rush to oblivion? Camp claims that the criteria to be used in judging the media are mine alone. Wrong. They are a product of CILA. The criteria for Best are: willingness to report the truth; accurate reporting of facts; presence of relevant scientific evidence; substantiated facts and opinions; absence of bias and prejudice. The criteria for Worst are polar opposites. Surely these are fair and reasonable criteria to guide responsible voting choices. Camp takes a wild guess that my academic field of expertise is politics. Wrong. It is education. Unlike politics, education is based on a proud tradition of ethical standards and a quest for truth. Camp misses the entire point of the Media Accountability Project. He should have recognized that major media injustices are constantly abusing firearms owners and should have acted wisely to eradicate them. Instead he overreacted defensively, deflected attention away from the real problem and wandered aimlessly into the non-existent threat of media accountability by the general public. Responsible gun owners welcome fair and balanced reporting on the firearms issue. They favor reasonable and effective firearms legislation that reduces crime and saves lives. They oppose the 1600 pages of complex firearms laws that harass them and steal their private property legally without compensation. They absolutely oppose government and bureaucratic inflated statistics, fraudulent research, flawed surveys and politicized polls that were published without sufficient media scrutiny and duped Canadians into supporting the needless, ineffective $3.5 billion national disaster known as Bill C-68 on gun control. The continuing abuse of firearms owners by unscrupulous members of the media will not be tolerated. Professor Al Dorans Director of Operations, Ottawa Office Canadian Institute for Legislative Action / Institut Canadien pour l'Action Legislative National Office: P.O.Box 44030, 600 Grandview St. S. Oshawa, ON. L1H 8P4 Ph: (905) 571-2150 Fax: (905) 436-7721 e-mail: teebee@sprint.ca Ottawa Office: 27 Cedar Grove Crt. Nepean, ON. K2G 0M4 Ph: (613) 828-8805 Fax: (613) 828-6967 e-mail: aldorans@magma.ca Home: http://www.cila.org A proud member of the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities / Forum du Monde sur le Futur d'Activites des Sports des Armes a Feu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:20 -0600 From: "Ryan Beckett" Subject: Re: [alert] BCWF ALERT Hi, my name is Ryan Beckett and I live in Langley BC. I have waited for 1year and 28 days and there has never been any definitive action done on processing my FAC by the Chief Firearms Officer's office during that time, except for listening to my constant complaints. The RCMP in Walnut Grove (Constable. Debbie Dickson) have significantly helped me in my quest for a license, however, the firearms office has put me on the hold. I believe they have been holding out on me because I have a gun that was stolen from my house and is sitting in the Kelowna RCMP office. The officers there have also been very helpful to me. I am ready to seek legal counsel on the matter. The gun originally was my fathers (who passed away) and he inherited it to me. It is a Sturm Ruger .44 magnum revolver (model: Blackhawk), with a 10 and a half inch barrell. It probably cost around $700. Please keep me informed, as I am still awaiting my FAC. (which I also paid $250 for and recieved a 96%) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:22 -0600 From: "T. Bryant" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #185 When an organization such as this uses these tecniques they are engaging in what is essentially a hate crime. They are promoting fear and distrust of firearms and firearms owners by using these false and misleading statements. Complaining to them will have little affect however a much better approach would be to find out how they are funded. If they are a government funded organization they are accountable to the voter. Complain to your MLA. You might mention that having a government organization promoting an agenda that is direct conflict to the Alberta Government's Court challenge of C-68 might be instructive. Further, a note should be sent to Mr. Briekruze who is doing such a great job of exposing these types of frauds through a program of exposure in the media. It is my considered opinion that when a group uses lies and mistruths in a bid to mislead the public and promote hatred and fear of their fellow citizens that there should be an immediate response. This forum helps mobilize the reaction but it would be helpful to have a directed response ie. an NFA Alert giving members the details of where the most effetive response could be aimed. Let us know who the bad guys are, how to smack them and let us go get 'em. >Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:12:38 -0600 >From: "Barry Glasgow" >Subject: Medical organizations who distort the truth > >I thought that politicized groups like the Center for Desease >Control in the US were the only ones guilty of distorting facts >in order to influence public policy decisions..., ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:40 -0600 From: "hamgranny" Subject: firearms registration Please let me know your opinions on registration of non-restricted firearms. We are both hunters; my husband has registered all of his long guns but I, being the radical of the family, am holding out on registering mine because basically I think the whole thing stinks. My husband's after me to get it done, however, 'cause apparently the cost is due soon to go up radically. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:31 -0600 From: "Mac McBride" Subject: Remington model 17 A friend has asked me for information that I don't have. He is asking about the relative value or collectability of a shotgun his father owns. His father lives in California. The shotgun is a model 17 remington pump. There is no calibre or gauge stamped on the barrel, but it will take a 16 G shell. The serial number is 56024, and the patent year is 1915. The gun is in an original hard leather case. My friend has no wish to bring the gun into Canada. His father is quite elderly, and if the gun is of interest to collectors the care will be taken to see that the gun is not turned in for destruction. Profit is not a concern, only a wish to find out if the gun should be passed on to someone who might regard it as a treasure. mac_mcbride@sunshine.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:42 -0600 From: John Fowler Subject: Help please Can anyone provide the telephone number of Keith Long, gunsmith please? John T. Fowler Fine photography from Canada http://www.magma.ca/~jfowler http://www.portfolios.com/photog/13998.fowler/index.html Tel: 613-256-4056 Fax: 613-256-3961 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:26 -0600 From: "Walter J. Kuleck" Subject: RE: [m1-m14] M1 converted to use BAR mags Now, why didn't I think of that? Bland Firearms does that exact conversion... Best regards, Walt Kuleck Fulton Armory webmaster http://www.fulton-armory.com/ Everything for the AR-15, M14/M1A, M1 Garand & M1 Carbine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:28 -0600 From: Don Clarke Subject: California Confiscation Order URL When I tried clikking on the URL in the message about confiscation (digest # V3 - - 185 - Subject: CALIFORNIA ORDERS STATE-WIDE CONFISCATION ) it didn't work. I went to http://www.nrawinningteam.com and got to the correct page from there. The proper address is http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/calockyer.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:26 -0600 From: Libbie3540@aol.com Subject: Re: Buying gun stuff in the States Hi: Has anyone bought recently a rifle in the U.S. and had it sent to the border? We need some hints from someone who has done this as we put a deposit on a rifle in Bellingham and expect it sent to the border this week. Need phone numbers and types of permits, etc. Thanks, Libbie. P.S. its a Cavalry Model sharps 45/70 replica. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 05:53:35 -0600 From: Jim Davies Subject: Courage and the Lieberals On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > > > I really do not understand why any firearms owner would > threaten Mr. Valin... > The resistance by hundreds of thousands of Canadians to the > firearms act has been non violent... The resistance of the RFC to arbitrary and illogical utopian decrees from the Lieberals has been in the finest tradition of democracy. All can be proud of our record. We have not stooped to secretly funding mysterious stalking horses in the mold of W Cukier, we have not threatened ANYONE at any time. And the list goes on. We are aware of our rights and responsibilities as taxpaying citizens of a democracy and have not abused them. In spite of this record, so plain for all to see, the Lieberals and their functionaries are predisposed to paranoia. We see J Vialin claiming to have been threatened by someone or something, we see vast amounts of money wasted on third-world levels of security at all the new, useless administration offices, we also see large groups of police detailed for the personal protection of Lieberal leaders despite the fact that there is no interest in harming them at either the local or international level. So where is the threat, and, where is the courage of their convictions? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:58:16 -0600 From: "John Perocchio" Subject: Re: Survey found big majority approves of Firearms Act" Re: 1999.10.25 , Final edition, Letters , page A13 by Louis Cormier, Media Relations, Department of Justice, Ottawa, entitled: "Survey found big majority approves of Firearms Act" To the Editor: The only thing the questions asked by the Angus Reid Group in their May 1998 Gun Control survey "found" was that if you consistently ask Canadians about things they don't know you will consistently get the wrong answers. This in turn will provide government spin-doctors years of myth propagation as well as a burgeoning bureaucracy to perpetuate their own jobs. All this while maintaining the illusion that all is well in Justice Department LaLa Land. Please Mr. Cormier, spare us your contrived statistics; no one believes them anymore. Rather tell us why the Mounties and Coast Guard have no budget, why our illegal immigrants land & skip without a trace, why our Health Care system is in shambles, why our taxes are insane, our dollar a joke and criminals, terrorists and drug dealers call Canada home. Now explain why you've spent billions on a failed firearms registration system aimed at law-abiding hunters and collectors. As I said no one believes you anymore; get lost. John L. Perocchio Kanata, Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:58:31 -0600 From: MJ Subject: Re: firearms registration Wait till the last moment, a lot can change between now and then At 05:53 25/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >Please let me know your opinions on registration of non-restricted >firearms. We are both hunters; my husband has registered all of his >long guns but I, being the radical of the family, am holding out on >registering mine because basically I think the whole thing stinks. My >husband's after me to get it done, however, 'cause apparently the cost >is due soon to go up radically. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:58:27 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: Re: NEW NFA CONVERT >>Speaking of Valin, who are the morons sending him death-threats? >>Valin is now denying media requests for his photo claiming that his life >>is in danger. >Hey Jean, would you like to buy a short barrelled .25 cal. easily concealed >semi-auto? It sure's Hell will be more reliable than calling 911 and >waiting for the cops to come. Besides, if I were you Jean, I wouldn't be >counting that they would show up to save you. (I did overhear at the CPA >conference that you are not that popular with them either!!) By the way >Jean, by becoming a firearms owner you will soon find out the kind of crap >WE have to put up with. Cool it with this line. We do NOT counsel people to commit criminal offences. Dave... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:58:19 -0600 From: Ray Laycock Subject: [Fwd: 32gg shotgun ammo] Subject: 32gauge shotgun ammo Dear NFA, It is a comforting thought to know that there are other institutions dedicated to the protection of fire-arm owners rights elswhere in the world. I, as a South African am feeling a little uneasy as our government slowly eats away at our rights! More to the point... My wife has inherated a 1975, Safari Arms 32gauge shotgun pistol with 9 rounds. I am desperatley looking for any information which would aid me in obtaining ammunition. Please forward any info you may have to deonb_99@yahoo.com Thank you for your co-operation. Sincerely, Deon Booysen (boy'sin) ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #186 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:parry@ionline.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ Digest Back-issues: by FTP (cd pub/cdn-firearms/Digests), or visit the Cdn-Firearms web site (above), or put the next command in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n022 end (022 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) If you find this service valuable, please consider making a tax-deductible donation to the freenet we use: Saskatoon Free-Net Assoc., 1702 20th St. West, Saskatoon SK S7M OZ9 Phone: (306) 382-7070 modem lines: (306) 956-3700 and (306) 956-3701 Home page: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/ National Firearms Association (N.F.A.) Box 4384, Station C Calgary AB T2T 5N2 ph.: (403) 640-1110 fax: (403) 640-1144 mailto:nfainfo@nfa.ca Web site: http://www.nfa.ca/ DONATIONS GRATEFULLY ACCEPTED! Automatic, monthly donations may be made to the N.F.A. by sending postdated cheques, or your Visa/MasterCard number and expiry date, to the Membership address above, along with the amount you would like to donate: $5, $10, or another amount. Automatic donations may be cancelled at any time. N.F.A. memberships: families: $40; seniors: $25; individuals: $30; businesses: $50. Included are regular issues of the N.F.A. newsletter Point Blank, as well as magazines like "Canadian Sportsman". Add just $4.75 per person for $5,000,000 insurance! Clubs: get associate memberships for just $3 per member ($40 minimum) and members will be still eligible for $5,000,000 liability insurance for just $4.75 each! These e-mail digests are free to everyone, and are made possible by the efforts of countless volunteers. Permission is granted to copy and distribute this digest as long as it not altered.