Received: by dot.crosswinds.net (mbox republican) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Nov 7 17:31:53 1999) X-From_: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sun Nov 7 10:41:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (majordomo@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca [198.169.128.1]) by dot.crosswinds.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10826 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:40:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA18031; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:52 -0600 Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199911071308.HAA18031@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> X-Authentication-Warning: broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca: majordomo set sender to owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca using -f From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #195 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Sunday, November 7 1999 Volume 03 : Number 195 In this issue: Police chiefs flip-flop on gun law FOOD FOR THOUGHT RCMP Halts Survey of its Officers! Re: Austin vs Ottawa The feds really are THAT stupid.... Re: U.S. Purchases Montreal Area Firearms show and sale. Shooting the Shooters NFA Action for Women Tactical Win, here is the background Harassment by Natural Resources LATEST MAJOR NFA TACTICAL VICTORY Letter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:08 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Police chiefs flip-flop on gun law PUBLICATION: The Saskatoon StarPhoenix DATE: 99.11.05 SECTION: Forum PAGE: A14 COLUMN: Readers' Opinions Police chiefs flip-flop on gun law For more than two years, the police chiefs of this province have told the recreational firearms community that this was a bad piece of legislation and that they did not support it. So, saying that they never had a position (Saskatchewan police chiefs support federal gun law, SP Nov. 2) is hogwash. They flip-flopped, as most ignorant politicians do when put under pressure by the federal government. These people are far out of touch with rank-and-file officers and people in Saskatchewan. Regina police chief Cal Johnston says they have asked the federal justice minister to keep careful track of the cost of this program. How is that going to help? Our sources within the minister's advisory committee tell us that the system is not working and the proposed total expenditures of $85 million are actually closer to $500 million. But the minister's office is carefully concealing these figures. Johnston should go after the criminals and he will have the full support of the people. Go after the people, and he will lose their support. He should think about that the next time he sends officers out onto the street. This is an unpopular, unnecessary and grossly expensive piece of legislation that will not work. Explain to me how a registered firearm will not kill another person. Johnston should get his head out of the sand and stop being a politician; he is not very good at it. He might try being a police officer first and forget the politics, as it is way out of his league. This legislation is putting law-abiding families out of business and forcing them into bankruptcy. Is this gun/crime control? Jim Schille Saskatchewan Responsible Firearms Owners Saskatoon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:17 -0600 From: "BOB LICKACZ" Subject: FOOD FOR THOUGHT ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization November 4, 1999 HAWAII'S "GUN CONTROL": FORMULA FOR MASS MURDER Looking for the formula for mass murder? Here it is: Person with evil intent to kill many people + Any deadly weapon + Guarantee that the intended victims can't fight back + Expectation that the police won't prevent the killing = Mass murder. All of these elements combined in Hawaii on November 2. For whatever reason, the man wanted to kill a bunch of people at the Xerox building. It doesn't matter what his reasons were, because his evil intent to kill was enough to propel him into action. Although it was illegal for the man to possess firearms because of his criminal record, he obtained the firearms. Hawaiian and federal "gun control" laws did not prevent him from getting the deadly weapon. Dedicated criminals always manage to get deadly weapons - -- even when they are locked up in prisons. Hawaiian "gun control" laws so strongly discourage personal possession of firearms that peaceful law- abiding people working in a Xerox office building would almost certainly not carry a firearm with them to work. Ordinary Hawaiians face huge legal risks of fines and imprisonment if they are caught carrying a firearm without a permit, and the permits are hard to get. The Xerox company likely also forbade carrying weapons in the workplace, so the people faced the additional risk of losing their jobs if they carried a defensive weapon. The man intending mass murder could be practically certain to find his victims unarmed and undefended. Although the intended victims were likely near a telephone, and perhaps could call the police, the criminal might have figured there was no reason to expect the police to arrive until after the killing started. To compound the problem for the victims, the police in Hawaii owe no legal duty to protect any specific individual(s) from criminal attack. The intending killer could expect to face no police interference with his homicidal plan. As with all of the other multiple killings that have been publicized in the last two years, the killer(s) could trust that the victims were disarmed and undefended. "Gun control" laws, anti-firearms policies and gun-phobic culture cleared the way for the killer to attack without fear. Dial 911 emergency telephone service was either unavailable or worthless to prevent these killings. You will hear the gun prohibitionists calling for even more "gun control" laws. They will say that even Hawaii's laws are not "strong enough." The fact is, Hawaiian "gun control" made it possible for the killings to occur. Don't forget the lesson that Israel learned, as described by Dr. Schiller in his interview on the JPFO website. Once Israel started arming school officials and guards, the terrorist attacks on Israeli schools ended abruptly. Once ordinary Israelis were permitted to carry concealed weapons in public places, the terrorist shooting attacks in public stopped almost entirely. A child could figure out this logic. Even popular talk host Dr. Laura Schlessinger this year changed her mind about civilian gun possession, when she fully realized that "gun control" means victim disarmament. So long as society requires that the people be unarmed when facing criminal attack, the attacks will keep coming. One wonders: do the gun prohibitionists really want criminals to be stopped? * * * Police protection failed in Hawaii on November 2, and then again just the next day in Washington State when another killer attacked unarmed people. In a nationally broadcast statement, a police department spokesperson said that witnesses to the November 3 Washington State attack had dialed 911 ... and the police arrived too late to catch the criminal. It is time to destroy the foundation of "gun control" by smashing the myth of police protection. Get the intellectual ammunition to do that by ordering the new book, DIAL 911 AND DIE, only $11.95 postage paid. Just click on our website at http://www.jpfo.org/ and follow the signs to get more information and order the book today. The Liberty Crew at JPFO - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:12 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: RCMP Halts Survey of its Officers! Translation from French to English RCMP Halts Survey of its Officers! Gilbert Gour, Info Plein Air : chasse et peche [outdoor information: hunting and fishing], November 1999, page 20 The cat is out of the bag at last! Yes! I am delighted to see that what some of us knew but could not prove for want of official documentation is finally out in the open. On May 23, 1995, as soon as the initial results of a first survey were compiled, indicating that 91% of RCMP officers in Saskatchewan did not support Bill C-68, Mr F G Palmer, RCMP Deputy Commissioner in Ottawa, justified halting the survey by writing that the usefulness of the survey at that time was questionable since the Commissioner had already expressed his position on Bill C-68. Very interesting! The survey was troublesome because it contradicted Alan Rock and his claims that most police officers supported Bill C-68, the present Firearms Act. Very interesting. I am sorely tempted to put into print what I think of these manipulators and manoeuvres. Fortunately for us, the truth has just come out, thanks to the hard work of Reform Party MP Garry Breitkreuz and his assistant Dennis Young. This situation reminds me of the answer I got from the Communaute urbaine de Montreal (CUM) police when I asked to use all the police stations in the city of Montreal to circulate a petition (see my September article entitled ''Reponse a Jean Valin'', on my Internet site). As you can imagine, that request was turned down. At the time, I was told that my request could not be accepted; the pretext was that the CUM had long been affiliated with the Coalition for Gun Control. In voting massively against rejection of Bill C-68 by the Canadian Police Association, powerful senior CUM police officials and representatives of the Federation des policieres et policiers du Quebec (FPPQ) [Quebec police officers' union] claimed that most police officers supported Bill C-68. A few days before an interview with Mr Prud'homme of the FPPQ, I asked some police officer friends (who wish to remain anonymous) what approach I should take. One of them didn't mince words: ''Gilbert, you're wasting your time! There's an unwritten law between the union and its members: the union doesn't give a fuddle duddle what we think, and we feel the same about them, so nobody's disappointed.'' My friend was proven right when FPPQ representatives voted at Calgary. At the end of the day, any means are supposed to justify the end of continuing to make us believe that most police officers in Canada support Bill C-68 when, in fact, according to my police officer friends, that is not at all the case! Police officers, I will be delighted to hear from you; as usual, I can guarantee you the strictest confidentiality. You can reach me as follows. Facsimile: (514) 624-5530 E-mail: gour@dsuper.net Internet: http://www.dsuper.net/~gour/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:04 -0600 From: dons@cadabradesign.com (Don Shesnicky) Subject: Re: Austin vs Ottawa > > The interesting fact is in the chart where they compare > > the two cities in a number of areas one of which is > > violent crime rates per 100,000. Before I actually glanced > > at the numbers I thought - maybe equal, maybe Austin slightly > > higher. Actual numbers - 521 for Austin and 911 for Ottawa. > > While it looks nice for us, Don, I don't think it is honest for us to use that > sort of comparison - unless we want to get lumped in with the Wendies of the > world. > I wasn't trying to make any scientific or firearms based comparision and I don't believe the paper was either but if the numbers are correct then they stand on their own and Austin has less violent crime per capita then Ottawa does. The reason this is interesting is that your average Canadian would not think this to be true - especially in a comparison to a city in "Bubba Country". Is the point in question that we need to verify the numbers and/or the studies? Don ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:02 -0600 From: Peter Kearns Subject: The feds really are THAT stupid.... In a copy of a confidential briefing note for the Justice Minister, the "background section" states that the National Firearms Association and THEIR members will launch legal action on TWO fronts. Item 1., is supposedly a "class action claim by business owners that the operation of the firearms act is resulting in a loss of revenue to them." I hope the federal monitors aren't (apparently) as intellectually challenged as the fed who wrote that piece. NOTE TO FEDERAL MONITORS: Report to your bosses that the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action is the organization proceeding with the class action claim, NOT the National Firearms Association. (The monitors can't even retrieve information from this list correctly, so why do they think they will win?) Item 2., claims that, "Mr. Kearns has an on-going dispute with Revenue Canada Customs concerning the importation of deactivated firearms that he claims he will take to court." I think the Minister should hire some new help that isn't as incompetent (apparently) as the author of that little nugget! We have already filed one claim, (and the Minister's people seem to be trying to prevent any court action. another (biggie) is set to go, and (READ THIS CAREFULLY FEDERAL MONITORS) for damages resulting from a RECENT illegal seizure is set to be filed in federal court.... shortly. "we have no formal indication of what issues will be raised. In the interim, we are satisfied that our procedures and interpretations are consistent with the law." Let's review their last statement..... and interpret it. Perhaps a better observation would have been, "we don't know what we will be accused of, and have no idea of the amounts claimed, but we will stone wall and claim the actions of Crown agents were legal..." ANNIE, GET YOURSELF SOME DECENT HELP, BECAUSE YOUR ADVISORS AREN'T VERY BRIGHT... Peter Kearns (his own opinion) Simon says: The feds can't even read the material submitted to this list and interpret it properly....... Oh dear....... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:26 -0600 From: Libbie3540@aol.com Subject: Re: U.S. Purchases Regarding purchasing firearms in the U.S.: Last weekend, we traveled to Bellingham Washington, saw a rifle we wanted (EMF Cavalry Model Sharps reproduction in 45/70) for $599.00 US. We paid for the rifle and had it driven by the store employee for $20.00 to the Border where we met them inside the Canada Customs building. We showed the customs people the FAC and drivers license and paid them the duty and taxes appraised. Then we put the rifle in the car and drove home with it. This is the same process that we have done the last few years without any problem. regards, Libbie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:30 -0600 From: Paul Chicoine <701506@ican.net> Subject: Montreal Area Firearms show and sale. I am not a member of LCACA, however arms shows are few and far between in this part of the country so I will pass the information along. The Lower Canada Arms Collector Assn. Inc. will be holding an arms fair on November 21, 1999 at: Place Desaulniers 1023 Taschereau Blvd Longueuil. Admission $5.00 Information 450-445-5801 9am - 3pm Antique and modern guns, military equipment, swords, cartridges, etc.. Sell, buy, trade or obtain information. Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:33 -0600 From: "The Gayders" Subject: Shooting the Shooters Shooting the Shooters http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/1999/09/24/shooter0924_01.html (solution to mass killings) Includes poll. JAG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:36 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: NFA Action for Women The Toronto Sun ran a very interesting article on 04 November 99 titled: Fight Back Women told. Most Rapists retreat expert says. The NFA agrees. Putting action into the equation have mailed copies of our LIONESS Method of Rape Prevention, and the video to the Toronto Rape Crisis Centre, along with a number of other Rape Crisis and Women's Centres across Canada. If you know of the address and a contact person for the Rape Crisis Centre in your area, please send that information to nfainfo@nfa.ca Jim Hinter Co-ordinator ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:39 -0600 From: "Jim Hinter" Subject: Tactical Win, here is the background Read about how the "pushing of regulations" came about and why. The November NFA Newswire is available shortly on www.nfa.ca Jim... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:44 -0600 From: "D.J. Udle" Subject: Harassment by Natural Resources While Pheasant hunting in the Annapolis valley area in Nova Scotia myself and hunting partners were checked by Natural Resources for licenses etc after a landowner had complained to the RCMP that hunters were shooting too close to her home. First of all there was no violation as my party and other hunters that were in the present area were well beyond the distance required by law. The following is a short list of events that followed: 1. RCMP checked for hunting license, approx 15 minutes. The member was satisfied that no violation had taken place and was on his way. 2. Five minutes after the RCMP left, Natural Resources shows up. One officer. She checks our licenses as well as our birds that were shot. Request was made to look at our shells. We complied with all of her requests. Then she proceeded to take our names, as the complaint also went into Natural Resources. 3. Two more Natural resources come speeding down the road with lights flashing etc and hemmed us in from the rear. Now remember that the RCMP had previously been there and left. 4. These two officers then demand all of the same requests that the female officer had already been given. Harassment maybe? 5. One officer with DNR then asks my hunting partner for the serial # from his Shotgun. That is where I stepped in. We informed the officer that he had no right to ask that information. He then said he would charge us for the original complaint that was received by the RCMP and after the RCMP had left. I then presented the officer with the Firearms regulations that is contained in paper back form that was snet by CFC. He then backed off and he obviously didn't see the publication until this week. AS well he must have figured by that point of time that no offence had taken place,as he did not lay a charge. 6. We locked the back topper on our truck and said under no circumstances we were giving out serial numbers on any shotguns that were in the pick up. My point is that do not give out serial numbers on any occasion as you are well within your rights, provided that you are not being charged with a violation. It makes you wonder if there is a hidden agenda. Dave Udle Sydney, NS. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:47 -0600 From: Dave Tomlinson Subject: LATEST MAJOR NFA TACTICAL VICTORY We have had another major tactical victory. The Department of Justice (DoJ) has announced that .25, .23 and under 105mm/4.14" barrel handguns (small handguns, or SHGs) are now legitimate until 2001. At an early meeting of the newly-formed NFA, way back in 1984, it was decided that the NFA should become Canada's most expert organization for the purpose of understanding firearms control law. Yesterday, that paid off. The NFA's constant study of law, plus the effects of firearms history and firearms technology as they interface with the state of the law, proved far better than the methods used by the Department of Justice to understand its own laws. To recap briefly: In 1994, the government decided to outlaw and confiscate all SHGs with Bill C-68, without paying any compensation to the owners. The NFA pointed out that the law did not allow confiscation without compensation. The government backed down, because it was looking at a payout of over $100 million in compensation if the NFA won in the courts. By Dec 1995, when C-68 was passed, amendments had altered the law to allow continuing ownership of and trading in those SHGs. The DoJ made a horrible mess of the amendments, opening many doors that it did not think it was opening. By Dec 1998, when C-68 came into force, the NFA's analytical presentations forced another change. The SHGs were still in the law, but there was an amnesty on them -- extending Dec 98 to 01 Dec 99. The DoJ and Canadian Firearms Registry (CFR) did a miserable job of explaining the situation to firearms control officials. As a result, large numbers of SHGs were illegally transferred in that period. David A Tomlinson National President, National Firearms Association Ph: (780)439-1394 Fax: (780)439-4091 natpres@nfa.ca Box 1779, EDMONTON AB, T5J 2P1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 07:08:51 -0600 From: "Andy" Subject: Letter The following letter was sent to my local radio station, Minisitry of the Solicitor General, and the womens directorate: Hello: This comment is for whoever does the commercial programming and for the station's executive. I am, this morning, turning the dial of my radio to another station to wake up to. It will depend on the response I receive to this letter as to whether I return or not.. At about 07:30 Friday I heard a commercial which I found extremely offensive and unacceptable to the point that I will no longer listen to this station. The ad was about violence... It started with how a drum sounds when it is beaten...and how a woman sounds when she is beaten... and so on. It was sponsored by the womens secretariat, Ontario Solicitor Generals office, and Crimestoppers. I found that the actual sounds (ie, the screaming woman) were extremely offensive and distressing. Any person who is against violence does not need this sound track to convince him to call police if he heard screams.... it is superfluous and sensational because of the shock value and has no other value that I can determine. I am glad that I don't have any small children who might have been present to hear this commercial. I would consider this material an obscenity as far as presentation to young children goes... And if anyone thinks that is somehow amusing or offbeat, let them put themselves into the position of a child who hears that suddenly, without warning. I also object strongly to the extreme gender bias suggested by the inherent concept that only women are beaten, and by the included inference that somehow firearms owners are likely to be more involved in beating woman. This commercial seems to be following an advertising tradition which suggests that only men are abusive and/or violent. I have yet to hear or see a commercial of a woman being abusive and violent even though I have personally seen them behave that way. I would like to point out that on a lesser note that the 'cute' play on language (Again.. the sound of a drum...the sound of a woman...and so on) is something that I have seen reserved for party jokes and the like. Using it in this commercial is... shall I say...clever... but I think it also somehow trivializes the concept of violence between people. I suggest that ALL violence and abuse is to be condemned equally... and that the gender of the people involved does not somehow change it's nature or acceptability. ALL PEOPLE have the right to be safe from violence and abuse, and all have the duty to take appropriate steps when needed. And ALL have the right to expect fair treatment and responsible advertising on the subject from their govenments and the media. This ad is NOT fair and responsible...and it should be removed from further airing.... Signed, Andreas Engel ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #195 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:parry@ionline.net List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ Digest Back-issues: by FTP (cd pub/cdn-firearms/Digests), or visit the Cdn-Firearms web site (above), or put the next command in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n122 end (122 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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